Vietnam War veterans Leonard Wong and Allan Perkal would love to talk someday with retired Army Gen. Eric Shinseki "soldier to soldier."

"Although he's a civilian now," the 60-year-old Wong said of Shinseki, a Kaua'i native who retired in 2003 as Army chief of staff, "he's still military at heart. He'll never say the decision (on Iraq) made by our government was wrong or that (Secretary of Defense) Donald Rumsfeld messed up.

"That's why I'd like him to sit down with me at a bar and talk, just soldier to soldier."

Wong and Perkal were among the standing-room-only crowd of 600 who attended last night's lecture by Shinseki at the University of Hawai'i-Manoa's Campus Center Ballroom. The topic for the first in the UH Distinguished Lecture Series was "Challenges in the effective use of force," but Shinseki didn't stray from public comments he'd made before, not even during the hourlong question-and-answer session that followed his presentation.

His message is about duty and carrying out orders once the decision is made to fight. "In our form of government, the decision is made by the president and Congress — and the uniforms have to follow instructions," said Shinseki, who refers often to combat as "blunt trauma."

"When he spoke, he spoke as a soldier," Perkal said. "Politicians make the decisions and soldiers do what is needed. We're here (in Iraq and Afghanistan) and can't pull out. We're fighting an unpopular war, just like Vietnam."

Shinseki appears comfortable in front of an audience and has a sense of humor.

Steve Dawson, a UH professor who teaches finance, asked Shinseki what he would say if President Bush called him right now to ask for his advice on Iraq.

"I can tell you he won't call," Shinseki said, drawing laughter from the audience. He then noted that it's important to create a secure environment in Iraq to get back to normalcy but it would require "large numbers."

Fourth-year UH graduate student Mark Willman asked Shinseki for his thoughts on news reports that U.S. forces used incendiary chemical weapons — white phosphorous and napalm — on civilians in Fallujah.

Shinseki said he did not know if such weapons were used but "once you cross the threshold, decisions are made for war."

"I came with a certain amount of respect for what Shinseki stood for but I think he still represents the institution he worked for and the job of that institution is to kill people," Willman said. "He sidestepped my question saying once we start fighting, we can't stop fighting. He's very charming but he's an apologist for the empire."

Reach Rod Ohira at rohira@honoluluadvertiser.com.