Karen Knudsen, the first vice chair of the state Board of Education, is no enemy of sunshine.

But she thinks it's kind of silly that the state's open-meetings law prevents her from talking about school board-related issues with more than one of the other 12 voting members.

"I think our sunshine law is really important to uphold and maintain. I appreciate the intent. But in some ways it's just not practical," Knudsen said. "To me it's taking it to just an absurd level. But I know that it's not a very popular stand to take because it sounds like we're all trying to duck the sunshine law."

State lawmakers may revise the open-meetings law this session to allow two or more board members to discuss board business in private as long as they do not make commitments to vote or constitute a quorum. The change is intended to make the school board, county councils and neighborhood boards more flexible and efficient and perhaps avoid some of the fumbling and miscommunication that can occur when everything is done at public meetings.

But advocates for open government oppose the change and fear it would be a landmark shift away from sunshine toward secrecy.

State Sen. Les Ihara, Jr., D-9th (Kapahulu, Kaimuki, Palolo), said the change would convert Hawai'i from a sunshine state to a quorum state, where board members could do virtually anything in private if they do not reach a quorum, or majority.

"All of it would happen in the dark, with no notice, no hearing, no opportunity for the public to see what happened," Ihara said. "It would all be in secret."

IN PLACE SINCE 1975

The Legislature created the open meetings law in 1975, as the country embraced good government ideas after the Watergate scandal. The intent was for state and county boards and commissions to conduct business and make public-policy decisions as openly as possible.

The law prohibits more than two board members from talking to each other in person or by telephone or e-mail about board business outside of properly noticed public meetings. There is an exception for two or more board members, but less than a quorum, to discuss the selection of board officers along with several other narrower exceptions.

Without such a rigid restriction, state lawmakers believed, board members could caucus privately about upcoming board votes and decisions and undermine the spirit of the law.

Ihara said it is better to create practical exceptions to the open-meetings law rather than become a quorum state.

A separate proposal moving through the Legislature would allow two or more board members to discuss their individual positions and attend outside meetings or presentations provided they announce and report on their activities at public board meetings. One provision, which worries some sunshine advocates, would allow board members to be polled by writing, e-mail or fax on official board business. The poll results would be public records.

Another proposal would allow two or more members, but less than a quorum, of neighborhood boards to attend informational briefings and presentations as long as the meetings are not specifically for the board members and no commitment to vote is made.

CERTAIN EXCEPTIONS

Several state lawmakers who are wary of giving exceptions to the school board and county councils are more open to giving flexibility to neighborhood boards, which are purely advisory.

"It's different. County councils actually approve permits and make decisions on individual projects, so that's a little more dangerous than the neighborhood boards," said state Rep. Blake Oshiro, D-33rd ('Aiea, Halawa Valley, 'Aiea Heights), the vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee.

Roy Yanagihara, the chair of the Kane'ohe Neighborhood Board, told the state Senate in written testimony that boards often have to cancel planned meetings when quorums are not reached.

"It happens all too often, when all assembled at the appointed time and place the meeting is cancelled because one too many board members got sick or could not attend the meeting for some reason," he wrote, clarifying that he was not speaking on behalf of the board. "Aside from the time, money and effort that is wasted, the public suffers because the information exchange that is supposed to take place at these meetings does not occur."

Maui County Council chairman G. Riki Hokama, in written testimony to the Senate, said changing the law would "give council members and other public officials more flexibility to conduct public business in an efficient manner without violating the sunshine law." The change is part of Maui County's legislative package for the session.

LEGISLATURE EXEMPT

The Legislature is exempt from the open-meetings law and the House and Senate have internal rules that guide meeting notice requirements. Majority Democrats and minority Republicans routinely go into private caucus to discuss strategy on legislation before floor votes. The Senate Republican caucus is technically open to the news media, although reporters do not regularly attend, while the other caucuses are private.

Ihara said the distinction is that the Legislature is made up of lawmakers from competing political parties who debate issues at committee hearings and before floor votes. Boards and commissions are officially nonpartisan.

Christopher Conybeare, the chair of the Honolulu Community Media Council, said the pressure to change the open-meetings law may be in response to the state Intermediate Court of Appeals ruling in December that found that one-on-one serial communications by a quorum of the Honolulu City Council could not be used to circumvent the law.

"It's a problem because it will allow a major exception to the idea that decisions have to be made in front of the public," Conybeare said. "I think it sounds a bit innocuous but frankly it would make a major exception to what we think should be the rule, and that is the public's business should be conducted in public."

Knudsen, the school board member, agrees that public-policy decisions should be made at public meetings but said there are times when board members have to speak with each other on routine matters. The school board's leadership team, for example, is made up of a chair and two vice chairs who have occasionally spoken about board business outside of public meetings.

"I think most people just try to be practical, like a lot of laws. I think we appreciate them but sometimes we might push it to the limit in order to just get work done," Knudsen said. "Otherwise, I think government would come to a standstill. And I don't think that's what people want."

Reach Derrick DePledge at ddepledge@honoluluadvertiser.com.